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Our glorious leaders decree. All motorists are now criminals.

Unless you successfully prove otherwise.


Drivers to be banned from keeping uninsured cars off road

The owners of a million uninsured cars face having their vehicles seized and crushed under a crackdown to be announced by the Government this week.


Mike Penning, the road safety minister, is expected to change the law to make it an offence for the first time to keep an uninsured vehicle rather than simply to drive while uninsured.

Why on earth would you want to insure a vehicle that you have no intention of using? I have often owned cars that I am not driving for a number of reasons. Sometimes it's necessary to park them on the road. The last time I did it was because the car failed its MOT so I drove Mrs Buckos for a couple of months while I worked on getting mine road legal.

If you drive two cars, you have to have a separate insurance policy on each. Even though you can drive them both together, insurance companies will not put two cars on one policy. Now we are being told we have to insure a car even if we are not intending to drive it. That's a big score for the insurance companies.

Sources at the Department for Transport (DfT) claim that the move will help reduce the £30 estimated annual cost to every responsible motorists in additional premiums to cover crashes involving uninsured drivers.

That's another pile of doublespeak crap that doesn't make any sense. It won't reduce costs at all. Insurance premiums rise every year. It's often blamed on uninsured drivers or young drives but this is not correct. Sure, they have some impact on costs but the real reason we pay so much is because insurance is compulsory. There is not enough competition in the industry.

If you go on a comparison website, you may get a long list of different companies that offer insurance, but when you sign up to one you find it's underwritten by one of the few big companies.

If we also make it compulsory to insure vehicles that are not being driven, one million of them according to the article, it will simply provide another million forced customers for the insurance companies. By definition, this will do nothing to reduce costs, it may even increase them.
Uninsured and untraced drivers kill 160 people and injure 23,000 every year, according to the department.

And they will continue to do so, even after this new law is passed. Uninsured drivers do it because they don't care about the law, they can't afford insurance or they think they will get away with it. A new law won't change this, it will just penalise the law abiding drivers with extra costs.

Under the new system the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) will work alongside the Motor Insurers' Bureau to identify uninsured vehicles, many of which are never taken out on to the road. Their owners will then be contacted by letter to warn them they face a £100 fine if the car or van is not insured by a certain date.
If the vehicle remains uninsured, regardless of whether a fine has been paid or not, it could then be seized and crushed, according to the DfT.
Police gained powers at the end of 2005 to seize uninsured cars, but to use their powers they have to catch the driver at the wheel. Under the new offence of keeping a vehicle while uninsured, the onus will be on drivers to prove that they have insurance, or have completed a statutory off-road notification.

This is not about preventing law breakers, it's about lazy policing. It's already very easy to identify uninsured vehicles by combining the DVLA registration database and the motor insurers database, as stated above. Because it is not currently illegal to own an uninsured car, only to drive it, the police actually have to catch you in the act.

Under this new law, police won't have to get out there and do their job, they will just look on their computer and enforce the law through Royal Mail. I imagine there will be a few fat traffic cops emerging shortly.

We are supposed to have a system of innocent until proven guilty in this country. It is absolutely essential for justice to be done that we keep this system. More often we are putting the burden on proof onto the citizen rather than with the police and courts where it belongs. This is just another example.
"People say, 'Well, it's sitting outside on the road outside my house. I'm not using it. It's taxed but doesn't need to be insured.' It has to be insured, because if someone decides to use it even for an emergency they will not be covered. We are moving fast on that."

Have another look at that last statement:

"if someone decides to use it even for an emergency they will not be covered"


They assume that we are so stupid and irresponsible that the temptation to break the law will always win. We cannot be allowed to think for ourselves. Punishment for offenders is not enough, if they don't take away our means to break the law, we will break the law because we are incapable of distinguishing right from wrong. Our political masters must look after us to ensure we do no wrong.

A poll of 2,000 people by Direct Line, the insurance company, in November, asked what amount should be imposed as a fine for driving without insurance - and produced an average figure of £900.
In addition, 34 per cent wanted those caught to have to take their driving test again, while 28 per cent supported life bans for offenders.

Well that's just typical. I would like to meet the people that think a lifetime ban for offenders is acceptable and have a little chat with them. Even murderers eventually get a second chance. That last paragraph is worthy of this post

The state will protect you from yourself

28 Comments:

William said...

I smell the hand of the EU in this. It seems to be deliberately trying to push the people of Britain into open rebellion so it can try and crush us with Euro Police.

Sad to say they haven't reckoned with the depth of apathy there is in this country!

Wouldn't it be lovely to wake up one morning and and see that Parliament had been replaced by a public park and the news headline reads
"Britain walks away from the EU"?

Bucko said...

Yes it would. It would be sooooo good.

Anonymous said...

Next you will not be able to sell any private car without checking ten proofs of I.D.. On threat of £10,000 fine or 2 years prison.
Bend over. Roger wants to empty his marly bag.

GP said...

I always thought the original purpose of insurance was to share risk with others for mutual benefit. Traders in the early days had the choice. If they elected to join an insurance syndicate they were also electing to cough up to cover their own risks with a group of likeminded people.

Now, it seems, most insurance is to cover other people's risk.

Why is road use, to take one example, not split into the driver and their liability cover on the one hand and the property (in this case the vehicle) on the other?

If I choose to insure my property I pay the premium. If not I don't - my risk as far as the property is concerned. I could then be expceted, as a licenced driver, t otake out a liability insurance for my driving based on my driving record as per now. How many vehicles I own and drive would be irrelevant although the types of vehicles would, as now, be restricted bt the licence.

I have never really understood why people get so upset about un-insured drivers. Yes they are cheating the social system in some way but that is mainly because the system is skewed anyway. If I am involved in an incidenet with an uninsured driver I expect MY insurance cover to pay since I am already paying part of the premium to cover that anyway. My choice about whether I take that cover of course in a proper system and no extended arguments as the insurance companies haggle amongst themselves about liability.

Why I should also have to contribute to the costs of the other driver's 're-edduction' or imprisonment I am not at all sure.

Beyond that - where do they get their figures from and has anybody checked them?

Are we sure this is not just typical political hand waving as a diversionary exercise from something else?

Bucko said...

GP - "I have never really understood why people get so upset about un-insured drivers."

Me neither. If I was hit by an uninsured driver I would expect them to pay for the damage but I wouldn't be bothered if the money came from an insurance policy or from their own pocket.

I have in the past done a deal with someone who didn't want to go through insurance (taxi driver). I gave her a garage bill and she gave me the cash. It took about three days rather than the months it would have take going through the insurance.

In a society where people take responsibility for their own actions, the fact that you choose to drive a car would mean you take responsibility for your actions should you cause an accident and pay up. Be it through your insurance or your wallet.

"Beyond that - where do they get their figures from and has anybody checked them?"

I haven't. Pressure groups give us all kinds of rubbish statistics that I just take with a pinch of salt. After all, 160 deaths per year in Britain? That's more than the number of people killed by terrorists and less than the number of people killed on ladders. Hence, meaningless.

Bucko said...

Anon - Quite true. You can already be prosecuted if you lend your car to someone who is not insured to drive it. Even if they tell you they are, you have to see their policy or you will be liable if it turns out they are not.

Gnostic said...

Insuring a car you own but don't drive. Well that makes a lot of sense - if you are an insane fuckwit.

Maddie said...

As you can't tax a vehicle without insurance one would imagine the majority of these cars are already SORNED off. And a lot of them still being driven around, anyone not bothered about insurance certainly doesn't give a toss about tax

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

This proposal is so breathtakingly out of order - my expletive cache is exhausted...

The utterly worthless parasites are on the march again.

"Police gained powers at the end of 2005 to seize uninsured cars, but to use their powers they have to catch the driver at the wheel."

This is misleading tosh of a very high order. Police have had the power to prosecute the driver of an uninsured vehicle on the public highway like ... forever...

This opens the way to stuff like prosecution for owning a TV, working or not to pay for the BBC. Taxing you because you own something, like well, anything.

It's just thieving parasites, bureaucratic bandits, hand in glove with the insurance biz.

You can only drive one car at a time, the Swiss have a scheme where you have a number plate for yourself which covers YOU as the driver on any vehicle (as I understand it)and your insurance is on YOU.

Trouble is we need to subsidise the failing regions like erm... Swansea (think Twin Towns anybody?) and constantly expand the number of termites undermining what's left of the UK.

Expletive cache hit - BOLLOCKS

Bucko said...

""Swiss have a scheme where you have a number plate for yourself which covers YOU as the driver on any vehicle (as I understand it)and your insurance is on YOU.""

That sounds far better than the crappy protection racket that we have at the moment.

Cassandra Milner said...

You need to tell everyone, putting it out on the net is one way but you need to tell everyone you meet the same thing.
Get at least one or two woken up and angry and the mob will come to pass eventually. Apathetic lot some of them.

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

"They" hate the Swiss scheme as it doesn't mandate employing loads of gerrymandered clerical staff for political advantage and making up stupid obstructive self serving rules, with fines n'all. Have a look at the new rules for 3.5T vans - you couldn't make it up unless your a DfT jobsworth goon.

A £400 (inc training)licence to tow a caravan as a 40T artic driving acquaintance of mine discovered on the M3 in the summer...

"Crushing Cars" - yeah, lovely in a soundbite.

Even the online SORN / taxing online of itself is a PITA. Twice now I've had a tax disc reminder which has had no "Renewal Reference Number" printed on it.

Sheesh, these people can't even collect the tax efficiently and create mayhem - but they never admit mishtakes... noo siree

So... the Coagulation were going to "end the war on the motorist"? Looks like that went the way of Cleggy boy's tuition fees "promise".

See they're tooling up to suppress a bit of dissent:

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2011/01/games-afoot.html

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

Tut... obvious innit - the first 10 secs of a call to Admiral for a multicar quote proved that!

>>>> Insurance Premium Tax <<<<

Couldn't possibly be anything to do with that now could it?

Another 6% trousered by the little bowler hatted flour graders to subsidise foreign owned and operated windmills? Surely not?

microdave said...

I visited my friends garage this afternoon, to use his press, and I'm now wondering how the car sales guy is going to cope?

There are 20 or so vehicles on the forecourt - all owned by him, and as far as I'm aware all taxed. So is he going to have to insure them all??

Bucko said...

Gnostic - It makes sense to them. You see, you cannot be trusted not to drive your car. You are a child and the state is Mother.

Bucko said...

Maddie - Personally I care a lot less about tax than insurance.

If my insurance runs out but tax is still valid, I should be able to park up the car while I advertise it for sale, as an example.

Bucko said...

Cassandra Milner - I spread the word at every opportunity. I've even put some people to sleep ;-)

Anonymous said...

First step - compulsory insurance for any motor vehicle.

Second step - expand ANPR, linked to insurance/mot checking. Because merely enforcing insurance doesn't stop insafe/uninsured vehicles being driven.

Incidentally, agree re rigged market in car insurance. Insurance costs have sky-rocketed in the past ~20 years IMO - is it because insurance payouts are substantially larger, or because even 'value' (3rd party, supposedly no frills) insurance costs a packet?

Bucko said...

Gordon - I've got the 7.5 on my licence. Mrs Bucko doesn't. The only difference is we took our tests at different times.
The law is mostly defined by the date on your calendar and your position on the globe.

As for the premium tax, they cannot say they are trying to bring costs down until that is scrapped. It does expose them as the hideous liars they are.

Bucko said...

Microdave - That sounds like the first unintended consequence of this stupid law.

Bucko said...

Anon - In my experience, third party costs no less than fully comp.

I think you are spot on with the ANPR. Once those cameras are everywhere they can use them for road pricing.

Then the next logical step is speeding fines. You drove onto the road at this time, left 2 miles later at this time. Your average speed was 65 and the limit is 60. Your fine is in the post.

Cassandra Milner said...

Bucko that is what they are doing to the M1 ( all these widening works are ANPR cable laying opportunities) and there are wires in the road all linked up to a central computer. They've been planning it for over ten years. All the purple wires... Computer core cable.

Makes you want to puke. They actively want to tax the motorways that way. Aswell as squeezing us everywhere else.

They are shites of the highest order

Bucko said...

Cassandra - There is a cheeky way around ANPR. Those cameras read the front number plate, not the back.
Get a new front plate that has one digit different from your real registration.
It will never get spotted by speed cameras or cameras in patrol cars.
If you do eventually get found out, just say, "Bloody hell you're right! I never spotted that. Must have been like that since I bought it. Well blow me down...etc"
(For information purposes only, not condoning crime etc etc...)

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

I was comparing notes tonight with a couple of other people who had been similarly inconvenienced by having the "renewal number" omitted from their renewal - and not being in a position to have sight of the V5 due to holidays / work travel - one had got a £80 SORN fine as a result for a vehicle in a garage. Needless to say DVLA simply demanded the money with menaces.

This seems simply part of a strategy to make us all criminals. That the coalition are dragging their feet hardly covers it - rolling back the 4000+ "law" blight of the TBGB regime years.

Bucko said...

Gordon - I have had a few "out of court" settlement offers from the DVLA, ranging from £28 to £198.
I found that they did just go away when ignored.
Having said that, the last one was six years ago, so I'm not sure what it would be like now.

Gnostic said...

Bucko, I'm more than happy to make myself an orphan - with extreme prejudice.

Bucko said...

Yeah, me too. Easier said than done

Angry Exile said...

What a cock slot. If he really wanted to fix the problem he'd be talking about putting a levy on fuel to pay for compulsory third party insurance (like we have here for rego renewals except that mine costs $600 whether I do 5,000 km a year or 50,000 whereas on fuel it'd be proportional to how much it's driven) and letting the insurance industry sell optional, and much cheaper, top up cover. This is no solution. Either Penning is just another authoritarian with a a hard on for monitoring and control and wearing a different colour rosette (which of course he is) or he's an idiot controlled by a senior civil servant who's stuck a hand up his bottom to make his mouth move. And who is an authoritarian with a hard on for monitoring and control.