Pages

Can the British military be used against the British people?

London 2012: 13,500 troops to provide Olympic security
Up to 13,500 military personnel will help to provide security at the London 2012 Olympic Games, the Ministry of Defence has announced.
Security would be police-led but the military would make a "significant contribution", the MoD said.
I find it a concern that the military will be used as security against the British public. It appears they will be heavily armed too.
The defence secretary also said the military would be using its full range of capabilities and equipment to "keep London safe during the Olympics".
He added: "Military hardware will be used, we'll be deploying helicopters, we'll be deploying Typhoon fighters to defend London's airspace, we'll be deploying ground-to-air missile systems."
Is there no equivilant of Posse Comitatus in England? Not that it's looking like it will be around for much longer in America though.

“Someone who has guns, someone who has ammunition that is weatherproofed, someone who has 7 days of food in their house” could be treated as a potential terrorist and be subject to indefinite military detention, warned freshman Senator Rand Paul (R-Kentucky) in a detailed and impassioned speech to the Senate opposing S.1867, the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). Section 1031 of that measure allows the indefinite military detention of any individual – including a U.S. citizen – who is designated a suspected terrorist or “unlawful combatant.” As Senator Paul pointed out, existing laws and official policy guidelines are replete with open-ended definitions under which law-abiding U.S. citizens could be regarded as actual or potential terrorists. (link)

Many people are preparing for a harsh future. We're seeing fiancial meltdowns, civil unrest and a general mistrust in / apathy towards the ruling classes.

They in turn are making thier own preparations for the day when the people tell them they are no longer wanted.

Military control of the population won't be accepted without question through legislation like the Civil Contingencies act or the National Defence Authorisation act. It has to be seen as normal and non theatening. It has to be introduced slowly, say by having the miltary run security at an extremely high profile event.

They will only be there to protect against terrorist threats of course. I'm sure British soldiers won't be checking attendees for beer, fags and products that aren't sold by official sponsors will they?

"They'll be working with civilians in mixed teams, searching and checking people going into the stadiums, making sure - airline style - that nothing that shouldn't get in there gets in."
When the trouble comes, the Governments of the West will have everything in place to easily declare martial law and control the population through the military.

The only question that remains is, will the army side with the six hundred or with the six million?

14 Comments:

Twisted Root said...

Well let's think about this. The official line is that our lads are over there (Afghanistan etc) to deal with the threat of them coming over here and 'destroying our freedoms'. It is also the official line that the Olympics is a high risk target requiring a vast security operation. So using troops to perform security out in the open amongst vast numbers of the general public makes the Olympics a doubly target rich environment for the bad guys and is the equivalent of sending our lads on a bender in downtown Tehran on a Saturday night with a target on their back. This one must have been dreamt up by the top generals.

Let's not underestimate our military strategists though, sacrificing a few men to draw the enemy out is an age old tactic and with the troops already here is an open invitation to the bad guys to move the conflict to this country. It is almost as though they want this to happen. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of troops on the streets (I think it is an idiotic idea and will increase the security risks) my advice to the military is to volunteer for another tour of Helmand next summer. It will be safer.

Johnnyrvf said...

Well, I left the sinking ship that is Britain a few years ago, how tragic that what I thought was coming is being proved correct by events.

Bucko said...

Twisted Root - If there were to be an incident and soldiers were hurt, that would just go to proove that the soldiers were necessary and more are required at the next event because of those nasty terrorists.

At least that's how they would try to sell it to us

Johnnyrvf - I envy you. It's pretty naff watching events unfold as predicted, when only a few years ago people thought you were crazy for predicting them.

OBO 110X said...

The easiest way to control a population is fear, fear of those nasty terrorists.

Truth is more people die from bee stings or peanut allergies than terrorists.

And let's be perfectly honest here it is western foreign policy that causes terrorism and nothing else.

If my country was occupied by foreign troops I'd resist and depending on which perspective the media viewed my actions I would either be a terrorist or a freedom fighter.

This is purely to get us used to seeing troops on the streets.

Bucko said...

OBO 110X - "This is purely to get us used to seeing troops on the streets."

My thoughts exactly. Under the guise of a benign security operation to keep us 'safe'.

Angry Exile said...

I don't think it's even that significant. Look, remember when there was that "credible threat" (which of course didn't happen) of some loonies with surface to air missiles in Hounslow or West Drayton or something, and the government responded by posting a few hundred troops in light tanks at Heathrow as if a light tank could shoot a missile from the sky? Same thing. It's just more security theatre. It's not meant for anything other than show and to make iDave look as if his balls might possibly have pubes on. Oh, he and the rest of them might believe it makes a meaningful difference having Typhoons circling over London, but if someone's got a car bomb they'll be as much use as a light tank defending airliners against SAMs, and it wouldn't surprise me if nobody's asked the military if what they've been told to do is actually any fucking use. Sir Humphrey once said of politicians that they often confuse activity for accomplishment, and this looks exactly like that.

Bucko said...

Angry Exile - You could well be correct, it's difficult to take the tinfoil hat off sometimes.

Couple the troop activity with modern legislation and current issues though, it's easy to have a conspiracy theory. One that could well be true as not.

Or one that might not be true now but has the potential to be fairly soon.

Michael Fowke said...

If the politicians want the loyalty of the military, they better pay them more first.

Bucko said...

They get paid peanuts and they're ill equipped at times, but soldiers are good at following orders.

??

Anonymous said...

Dear Moose

"Can the British military be used against the British people?

They already have been for decades in Northern Ireland.

According to folks I knew at university, they were just practising ...

DP

Bucko said...

DP - Why didn't I think of that? Interesting, there's probably another post in that

On Guard said...

The olympics is less about the 100 metres dash (although that is the only event that interests most people about the four-yearly funfest) and more about theatre: we will care far more about the opening and closing ceremonies than 90 per cent of the events themselves.

So, the army on the streets and airforce in jets above and, er, a small dinghy on the Thames from our much reduced navy is all there as show. Part of the variety theatre sustained at great expense by the IOC and gullible nations. And, to be honest, it's quite nice to see military hardware 'out there' because, in case anyone is being too modern-moral and libertarian about this, we do have enemies in our midst.

Oh, I don't doubt that the nutjobs who follow the RoP (and let us be brutally honest, they won't be from any other religion) will be dissuaded from their acts of lunacy by a tank of a street corner, but it helps us to know we do have something they haven't got.

Correction, we have civilisation too, but we all know that.

I doubt if the army and the fighters zooming overhead would do much to stop another summer of looting for example, though some feel that a healthy volley over their heads might have cleared some of the crowds of robbing scum faster.

As for the army practicing... of course they do. And so would you if you were in charge of them. The greatest sin in military terms is to be unprepared, so why not have some practice whenever you can?

In the military you have to think the unthinkable and practice it all. Troops in swamps in Borneo? Infantry in the mountains of Norway? It's all about practicing just in case...

And now, the final question: do a few thousand squaddies in camo gear and carrying rifles inhibit our lives? I suppose if they stopped me going to Tesco, watching footy or listening to my favourite music then perhaps I would reconsider, but as I am not going anywhere near London in the Olympic fortnight then they probably don't.

Carry on!

PS On Posse Comitatus, there was story recently in the States of nuclear components going missing from a military base, and it was the armed forces and not the cops who swooped on a store (I think) someplace in the US, which shows the military would get involved if they thought there was a clear need.

On Guard said...

Sorry, for: "Oh, I don't doubt that the nutjobs who follow the RoP (and let us be brutally honest, they won't be from any other religion) will be dissuaded from their acts of lunacy by a tank of a street corner"

I meant "Oh, I don't believe that the nutjobs who follow the RoP (and let us be brutally honest, they won't be from any other religion) will be dissuaded from their acts of lunacy by a tank of a street corner"

My error

Bucko said...

On Guard - Good comments. I agree about the theatre aspect of the olympics but I don't think we need to have our military on show in the capital so people can see what we are capeable of. I think that's pretty common knowledge from the coverage of military operations abroad. That knowledge doesn'y stop the Taliban keeping up the fight against British troops in Afganistan, people with no fear of death don't really have a fear of military might either.

You are right that we do have enemies in our midst but as OBO 110X points out, that is largely the result of our foreign policy.

Also, the threat is very much hyped up by the powers that be to keep us scared. We never had the current level of security or anywhere close during the IRA threats, and Thatchers policy towards terrorists was to not give them publicity. Now we do the opposite and hype up even the tiniest of threats.

I beleive there is more to having soldiers policing this event than a real threat. I think it is part of normalising armed troops on domestic duties.

I try to be as Libertarian as possible about these things because I beleive and loss of liberty, even if it doesn't affect me, is a loss of liberty for all.

As to the American situation you describe, I think over there, and possibly here too, the military does have juristiction on their installations and in purely military matters. If nuclear materials go missing from a base they are unlikely to involve the police but will have authority to deal with it themselves. Posse Comitatus refers to the military policing civillian matters as I understand it.

Besides, wasn't it the military police that chased the A-Team all over America? :-)