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With views like that, he must be insane.

Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik is insane and should not be punished, an official report has recommended.
The 243-page psychiatric report says the 32-year-old was mentally ill and therefore not responsible for his actions when he killed a total of 77 people.
It says he has developed paranoid schizophrenia and should be detained indefinitely at a psychiatric hospital.
Public prosecutor Svein Holden told a packed press conference that experts had "described a person who lives in his own delusional universe".

Interesting. He will never see freedom again, but could they really have put a person with his views on trial as sane. Could they admit that anyone but a total loon would think the way he did? Was his insanity verdict and eventual committal a foregone conclusion?

Just a thought.

9 Comments:

JuliaM said...

See also #racisttramwoman.

It seems she's been held in custody for 'psychiatric reports'. You wouldn't automatically get custody if you'd physically assaulted someone!

Angry Exile said...

It's hard to see either Breivik's actions or justifications as rational or sane, even though some things he was concerned about are also things many sane people are concerned about. Even if you accepted his decision to commit acts of violence as sane, which we do with other acts of terrorism and similar crimes, his choice of targets wasn't rational. A foregone conclusion? Maybe, maybe not, but just going on what he did and to whom I thought he was a headcase at the time so I'm not in the least bit surprised. It was like seeing a headline saying that David Beckham is a footballer or that Cameron is a twat who doesn't know what he's doing.

Racist Tram Woman is interesting. Despite what she said, RTW harmed nobody. Offended loads, sure, but she can only be guilty of thought crime. Julia's point that she's being held for having nasty views when she wouldn't have been for hitting someone is a good one.

Bucko said...

Julia - Has she now? Because racism = mental illness by definition now? Looks like she's gonna loose the kid then.

Angry Exile - There's a good chance he is bonkers based on his actions alone. My point is, there's also a good chance he isn't, but could they really have admitted that if it had been the case? If the reaction to Racist Tram Woman represents the future, it looks like racism is to be classed as an illness. Think of the ramifications of that, and all the other beliefs it could encompass.

Angry Exile said...

Just replying to Julia on the same topic at mine so I'll say the same here. Why call him crazy if he isn't? Think about it from the perspective of a right on left wing PC type: if call him crazy you lose an evil right wing criminal who can be held up as an example of why social democracy is just always better, and all you gain is someone whose off his rocker. He's worth more to them as a sane criminal than he is as a common or garden psycho nutjob.

Nor do I worry about racism being classed as an illness for similar reasons - they'd much prefer it to be thoughtcrime and they've more or less got things that way anyway. I think you're reading more significance into RTW's case than there is. The courts have people who've committed all kinds of crimes checked out by the trick cyclists just to see if something in their heads compels them to offend, and it doesn't mean they're going to start classifying those offences as illnesses. There's certainly no payoff for doing so with thoughtcrimes. Criminals are to be hated and feared, but in the PC Big Book of Righteous Half Formed Thought those who are ill are to be pitied and helped and they don't want that. The option of just condemning RTW's opinions but leaving her to them won;t have occurred to them of course, but they won't want to pity her for her (non existent) illness - they want to be able to hate her for her (also non existent) crimes.

Bucko said...

Angry Exile - I must disagree. I think it's better for them to class racism as an illness.

They class speeding and such as crimes but many of us do it anyway and ignore them. If they can make us beleive that racism is a mental illness then people who have racist thoughts will start to feel guilty about them and try to hide them.

I'm not just talking about people who hate foriegners for no rational reason, but people who are tired of high immigration and benefits for all, policies that suit the government but not the people. If opposition to these policies can be seen as a mental incapacity then maybe vocal opposition will diminish.

Angry Exile said...

We'll have to agree to disagree, Bucko, though perhaps there are a few who think that way. But I'm confident they'll be massively out-foamed by those who want to demonise and vilify, and keeping these things crimes will be their preference as it always has been. Historically authoritarian states have always preferred to criminalise unwanted behaviour and western society, certainly the UK, has so far followed this pattern. It generally works too, at least in the short term.

I don't think the comparison with speeding holds up well. Speeding is ignored because it happens billions of times a day with absolutely no negative consequences, and we're all subconsciously aware of it. Saying that people speed because they're mentally ill will have no effect at all, and I'm pretty sure it has been tried. Treating it as an even more serious crime will - and I speak from the experience of having moved to somewhere where speeding is treated as a more serious crime than in the UK, the result of which is less speeding here. I'd say more bad driving and a worse accident rate, but hey, the object of the exercise is the speeding. ;-)

As I said earlier, don't read too much into RTW being held for psychiatric reports. Shoplifters, drug users, wife beaters and people who get a bit fighty on a night out have all been held for psychiatric reports. For any kind of sex crime it's almost a certainty that the brain drainers will be wheeled out. Doesn't mean any of the offences are going to be treated as illnesses. From the p.o.v. of the lawyers I imagine it can be as much about ruling out the possibility of dealing with someone who's a mentalist early rather than have it bugger up your criminal prosecution later on. For me the real significance of RTW being held in custody for psychiatric reports is that her voiced opinions have been treated as being as just as criminal as shoplifting, drug taking, wife beating, getting fighty when pissed and raping people.

I might end up having to eat my words by I'll stick my neck out and make a prediction here. I'll bet that the psych stuff is just to rule that out as a defence and she'll end up being charged with a vanilla criminal offence, most probably something public order but under the 2006 Racial and Religious Hatred Act if they think they can make it stick. I'd also bet, though we'll never know now, that if it hadn't been filmed and gone viral then she'd probably have just got a police caution or maybe been bound over.

Michael Fowke said...

If he were sane, I think he would only have to serve 20 years or so in prison. So this "insanity" is a way of keeping him locked up forever, I suppose.

Bucko said...

Angry Exile - "We'll have to agree to disagree". Agreed :-)
You might be right about the tram woman though, in that last paragraph. That's one to watch.

Michael - It's a risky tactic because with the insanity he could be out in three. Although I wouldn't put anything on that ever happeneing. I'm sure he will die in a prison hospital

Norwegian Wood said...

Of course he was insane. Nucking futs, as they say.

If, as he supposedly said, he objected to the infiltration of a certain 'faith' into Norwegian society it was always strange that he went after members of the infidel classes rather than lock horns with you-know-who.

Being unhappy with a government's policies in itself wasn't mad, but his mode of operation (including it appeared no desire to get away before being caught) and the choice of targets were utterly crazy.

This still smells like some sort of set-up to me, but I don't suppose I will ever know.

But I do wonder if, as he fears, there is a RoP takeover of his country one day, whether he will remain as safely 'mad' at the nation's expense, or whether the new rulers might review the case.